REJECTED by NASA
 
NOW  IT  CAN  BE  TOLD  ...

The CYCLODYNETM general aviation powerplant



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    S U B M I T T A L   A N D   R E J E C T I O N . . .
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Cottrill Cyclodyne Corporation submitted an SBIR (Small Business Innovation Research) Grant Phase I Proposal on June 7, 2001. Submittal was by email, backed up by surface mail of a complete copy, as required by NASA. Judgment of the submittals was to be completed by the first week in September, but was delayed slightly. According to NASA, they "received 1659 SBIR and 57 STTR proposals submitted by small, high technology business from 46 states. Out of those 1,716 proposals, 325 were selected for negotiation of Phase I contract awards." Unfortunately, we were not among those selected for Grant awards.
The links below show the actual text of the the initial pages of our proposal as delivered on June 7 and the rejection letter received from NASA on September 11, 2001. Following these links, CEO and Director of Product Development Larry Cottrill answers the most frequently asked questions concerning our grant proposal and its ultimate rejection by NASA.

  Larry Cottrill with Cyclodyne(TM) engine prototype parts - Photo Copyright 2003 Cottrill Cyclodyne Corporation
  Larry Cottrill with CyclodyneTM engine prototype parts and subassemblies [NOTE: No proprietary or patentable design elements are illustrated in this photo]
Photo Copyright 2003 Cottrill Cyclodyne Corporation

     Read Pages 1 & 2 of our NASA SBIR Grant Submittal here!

     Read the actual text of the NASA Rejection Letter here!

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    L A R R Y   C O T T R I L L   A N S W E R S
      F R E Q U E N T L Y   A S K E D   Q U E S T I O N S . . .
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  Larry Cottrill with Cyclodyne(TM) engine prototype parts - Photo Copyright 2003 Cottrill Cyclodyne Corporation
  CEO & Director of Product Development Larry Cottrill with Cyclodyne(TM) engine prototype parts and subassemblies [NOTE: No proprietary or patentable design elements are illustrated in this photo]
Photo Copyright 2003 Cottrill Cyclodyne Corporation
Q: To you, yourself, what was the personal impact of NASA's response? A: In other words, how did it feel to be rejected by NASA? [Laughing] OK, the first thing to understand is that I was quite realistic about my chances. I knew it would be an absolute miracle if I ended up with that grant. The next thing is, this came in on September 11, 2001 -- the whole office where I work (my "day job") had just witnessed the tragedies at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon via CNN; so, probably, some of the disappointment I would have felt personally was simply dwarfed by the concern we all felt for the people who had taken such deep losses earlier that day. So, really, NASA's response wasn't quite the crushing blow that I had expected to feel. It was disappointing, of course, like any situation of high hopes that don't pan out -- but it all seems pretty small when you think about a spouse or dad or mom who isn't ever coming home again. Q: But you must have had a lot invested personally -- after all, this was a one-man corporation at that time! A: Well, it still is! You have to realize, though, that small outfits are pretty light on their feet in terms of things like this. A big company would have spent thousands just preparing their grant proposal, because of having to pay people. I did all the research and writing personally, so the cost was virtually zero. Well, of course, I'm talking about costs in cash -- I guess you'd have to say that there was an 'opportunity cost': preparing the proposal was about the only thing I could manage to do for a couple of months, before the submittal. So there is always a cost, and that's your risk in going into something like this. If the grant had happened, it would have been well worth it, of course. Actually, it WAS well worth it, anyway -- the lessons learned in the process were invaluable! Q: Briefly, can you summarize the business impact? A: Well, I can't summarize ANYTHING 'briefly'-- but, I'll do the best I can: First, you have to understand that not much had been invested in terms of real assets -- just a few hundred dollars for materials and the time to develop what were basically just schematic drawings [i.e. usable as 'patent drawings']. Plus, some time and a little more than $1200 on patent searches. A little welding of stainless steel parts had been done by me and some fabrication of other stainless assemblies had been contracted out, but that just amounted to a few hundred dollars. Since I bore those costs personally, it seemed like a lot at the time, but it really didn't amount to much in terms of the whole life of the project. I mean, I expected for this to become a serious product development -- revolutionary, and all that. If you want to change the world, you understand it's going to cost you something -- the question is whether it's worth going on ahead at any particular moment, with the resources you have available. Probably the most serious impact is credibility with potential investors. It's one thing for friends and co-workers and so on to say "Wow, that's really exciting!", and quite another thing for people to risk real money on an unproven idea. It's funny - if I'd take NASA's response and just edit it down to, you know, just quoting the positive things NASA said, it would sound like a fabulous opportunity! But, of course, I won't do it that way -- I don't think any Christian businessman would do it that way. You have to take the bitter with the sweet, and you have to be honest about what you've got to offer, every time down the chute. That's why I don't have any 'sales pages' for my tiny jet engine designs; they're just not 'perfected' enough to be good product offerings - yet. It is frustrating, though, to work without ANY capitalization -- product development just takes FOREVER, because you can't just leave your "day job" with its life-sustaining benefit package behind. So, your time is very, very limited. One of the reasons I've gotten involved in 'net marketing is to try to capitalize the business to support further jet engine development work -- but, that has yet to be really fruitful. From an investor's standpoint, this has to be regarded as one of the riskiest things you could get into. Even IF the design works [which has yet to be proven!], you'd be marketing against some of the most powerful corporations in the world. Also, think of the product liability issues -- what will you do the first time a jetliner crashes with YOUR powerplant aboard, and everybody's suing everybody? The big players have massive staffs to deal with inevitable horrors like this. Interesting topics to ponder, don't you agree?
  Larry Cottrill showing tail cone aligned with combustion chamber - Photo Copyright 2003 Cottrill Cyclodyne Corporation
  Showing the tail cone subassembly as it would be aligned with the combustion chamber wall [NOTE: No proprietary or patentable design elements are illustrated in this photo]
Photo Copyright 2003 Cottrill Cyclodyne Corporation
Q: You don't feel there was any lack of fairness -- like 'prejudice against the little guy' or whatever? A: Look at it realistically, from NASA's perspective. They've got just so much money - federal money - allotted specifically for the purpose of these grants. Taxpayer's money. Now, what would you do with a proposal from a guy grinding out drawings in his basement, welding up stainless in his garage, and telling you he's going to test in a pit in the backyard with a pair of goggles, hearing protection, and a couple of fire extinguishers handy? And, this is an idea that isn't like anything conventional -- any existing manufacturer would need to heavily re-tool to produce it! And, the guy doesn't give you the detailed math to prove that it should work (one of my basic mistakes in the proposal). AND, the guy is not even an engineer, just a 'lone inventor' working mainly off of 'inspiration'. Now, 99% of the other proposals are from at least fairly well-established companies with TEAMS of engineers -- almost always with their own manufacturing facilities already set up, producing aviation powerplants that other companies are actually buying! What would you do, if it was your call? Well ... if the idea was OBVIOUSLY revolutionary, you might give the 'new kid' a chance, IF it also seemed feasible. NASA didn't really express any doubt that I knew how to do the work -- the whole case rests on the uniqueness and the feasibility of the design. Without some heavy math, feasibility is what's left in question. And of course, EVERY inventor thinks his latest design is obviously revolutionary. Maybe NASA didn't think it was (or maybe just not revolutionary ENOUGH). At least one of the reviewers said he felt it was basically a good idea, so I have to think the perceived feasibility of the particulars of this design was really the main issue. Q: What would the Phase I Grant have meant, in time and money? A: Everybody makes their proposal come as close to the $70,000 limit as possible -- my request total was $69,993.00, and of course, I was cutting some things to the bone to do that. One tremendous blessing was the estimate I got from Quality Manufacturing (of Urbandale, Iowa) for the stainless fabrication of the Production Prototype, for under $10,000! I was ELATED at that estimate -- that was for the COMPLETE fabrication of all stainless parts, precision laser cutting, TIG welding, the whole works! That terrific bid would have left me with $60,000 for everything else, from finishing up the Inventor's Concept Model through all the testing and the inevitable refinements and design changes. I would have been given six months, while required to work 20 hours/week of MY OWN time, which would have made it possible [just barely] to keep my "day job" with benefits [putting in 32 hours per week]. So, barring any personal disasters such as major illness, it was an intense but workable schedule. I'm not sure I'd try to work that same schedule if private money were involved, but I AM sure the $70,000 would still get the job done -- in the sense that at the end of that time frame and expenditure, you would KNOW whether you had something that would really impact the market! The experimental regimen proposed was not all that demanding or difficult. One real ADVANTAGE of private money would be that the NASA SBIR Grants can't be used for any patent work, nor for tooling up for the project! [One of my biggest deficiencies is that, admittedly, I don't have an adequate shop -- this makes it tough to make the necessary changes quickly and cost-effectively.] Q: So, what do you see for the future of this design? A: Well, that depends on what happens on the investment side -- if things stay the way they are, this design will remain on hold. That doesn't mean other jet engine projects can't move forward. The tiny pulsejet designs require (or at least, SHOULD require) a lot less expense and effort, and if I can come up with a really good one, priced exactly right, the short-term market would be enormous -- enough to easily capitalize further development of the Cyclodyne, which was always intended to be the 'bread and butter' product of the organization. The only way the Cyclodyne design could take off quickly would be for someone with risk capital to spend to really get enthused about the potential for the product, kind of like Harry Guggenheim got involved with Dr. Robert Goddard and financed a lot of his rocket experimentation in the desert back in the 1930s. Charles Lindbergh was also involved in that to some extent, I think -- at least, I know he visited Dr. Goddard's test site to observe what was going on. I'd MUCH rather have somebody with a fired-up imagination than somebody whose only interest is to make big money. Of course, no one who can't see any commercial potential in this particular jet engine design is going to step up anyway. And that's fine. But there must be someone out there who can see the limitations of current jet engine technology and the advantages of doing things in a fundamentally simpler way -- and that's who I'd appeal to, if I just knew an effective way of doing that. So far, I haven't found it. I don't need the typical Venture Capitalist who wants to come in, change everything to his liking, make a quick profit and move on to his next career project. I need someone genuinely interested in the long-term technological and commercial impact, who wants to be in on the genesis of a new way of thinking about jet propulsion. Someone like that is tough to find. I'm not really sure how much NASA's opinion would mean to someone like that, if they really believed in the principle of the design and could be convinced of its merits. And, convinced that the deficiencies can be overcome, of course -- no design is perfect. We just need to find the right man or woman who can study it through and still end up believing that it can work, technically AND business-wise.


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    R E L A T E D   L I N K S . . .
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NASA SBIR Grant Program Front Page
Quality Manufacturing Corporation, Urbandale, Iowa
Cottrill Cyclodyne Corporation - Home Page
jetZILLA monthly online magazine - Subscribe FREE!
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The CYCLODYNETM general aviation powerplant
         - now under development by


Corporate Main Office
11905 NE 110th Ave
Mingo,    IA 50168-9500

Contact:
  cyclodyne@cottrillcyclodyne.com

Page updated: 11 Jul 2006

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